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- 18:46, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Thoughts on a privacy preserving, simulacrum resistant identity verification mechanism (Created page with "{{Main|Privacy, identity, and fraud in the ratings system}} <span id="the-digital-absence-of-natural-personhood"></span> == The digital absence of natural personhood == There are many situations in which it is desirable to limit participation (in a community, discussion, event, entitlement, vote, or anything else one can participate in) to natural persons only. Let us define “natural person” as a single living, breathing organism experiencing consciousness, sapienc...")
- 18:43, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Thoughts on identity in communities (Created page with "{{Main|Privacy, identity and fraud in the ratings system}} Last time we decided that communities would want to solve the identity problem especially in the case where they were handing out precious goods to their members. We wouldn’t want to allow individuals to pose as fake people to increase their handout. What kinds of goods would these be? Well, one might be a freely distributed basket of basic goods/services that every citizen is entitled to. A community might d...")
- 18:42, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Fake identities and ratings (Created page with "{{Main|Privacy, identity, and fraud in the ratings system}} Last time we discussed identity verification and how to tell if someone is a real person. Dan brought up a particular case: Someone introduces himself to multiple independent people as a different person every time. Say he has 100 fake identities that he does this with. Then he uses the 100 fake identities to rate someone. His motivation, perhaps, is to increase his friend’s average rating by introducing a bu...")
- 15:54, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Privacy and fraud (Created page with "We should consider that privacy and fraud go together. If privacy means no one knows what we are doing and can never know, then this is exactly what fraudsters want. We have been thinking so far of a system that starts with privacy and then works toward non-privacy depending on the situation. We might instead, just as a thought experiment, think of a system that starts with no privacy and then works toward privacy depending on the situation. Let’s limit this to financ...")
- 15:48, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Rawls and privacy (Created page with "{{Main|Privacy, identity, and fraud in the ratings system}} <h2>Rawls and Privacy U99</h2> Rawls does not directly address the issue of privacy rights but we can infer that he would believe in a right to privacy as part of his basic liberties principle. If we go behind the veil of ignorance, and consider what our basic liberties should be, most of us would reasonably include a personal right to privacy. This means the government, and others, cannot snoop on our private...")
- 15:40, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Privacy in the subjective and community-based ratings system (Created page with "<h3>The subjective and community-based ratings system</h3> Last time Dan reminded us that we are contemplating first a subjective ratings methodology in a peer-to-peer network. Everyone would have their own network of contacts, choose their own categories for ratings, algorithms for aggregation, weights for aggregation equations, etc. Individuals would identify themselves to their peers of choice with a public key or similar methodology. Their opinions would be encrypte...")
- 15:10, 7 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Privacy, identity, and fraud in the ratings system (Created page with "The concept of privacy is central to how the ratings system will be designed. Privacy settings will allow users to change the levels of privacy at either the personal (subjective) or community levels. So the first way to understand privacy in the context of the ratings system is to see how it might exist in both its subjective and community forms.")
- 19:21, 3 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Internal:Brainstorming 27 – Freedom of speech, cont., smart people, progress moving to Main namespace (Created page with "==Freedom of speech, cont.== Last time we discussed freedom of speech as a right to be protected, or at least encouraged, by the ratings system. Dan’s view was that freedom of speech is too general and needs to be broken down into separate categories. So let’s do that and consider how the current legal mechanisms handle each case vs. the ratings system. Defamation/slander/libel – The ratings system is a good natural way to handle this. It can distinguish first th...")
- 21:18, 2 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Bayesian & Non Bayesian Approaches to Trust and Wang & Vassileva's Eqn (Created page with "<h2>How Bayesian Approaches Restrict our Thinking, particularly on Trust</h2> If we adopt a non-Bayesian approach, it opens the door to many possible ways that Probability and Trust can be assigned. If you’d prefer to skip to that, just go to the next section. This section is somewhat of an essay on how/why, in a Bayesian approach, our thinking becomes more limited. Bayes restricts us in both a hard technical sense and more generally in how we think about the informa...")
- 16:04, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Bayes and certainty (Created page with "{{Main|Technical overview of the ratings system}} <span id="introduction--bayes-pulls-toward-certainty"></span> == Introduction – Bayes pulls toward certainty == We’ve already discussed the fact that Bayes pulls in favor of certainty. If we combine a 99% opinion with a 10% opinion we get 91.7%. But if we increase the 99% to 99.9% the combined opinion rises to 99.1%. If we increase yet again to 99.99% the combined opinion rises to 99.91%. We summarize this below to...")
- 15:55, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Error bars and a problem with Bayesian modeling (Created page with "<h2>Error Bars for Incomplete Analyses</h2> During last week’s meeting (6/19/23) Eric suggested the idea of putting error bars around incomplete results as they stream in. To do this we can compute the Pcomb for all the nodes in the network, whether they’ve answered or not, by putting P=50% on the nodes that haven’t answered. This way they don’t affect the calculation and the calculation can remain as simple as possible: just compute as if you have all the infor...")
- 15:21, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Modification to the Sapienza probability adjustment for trust to include random lying, bias, and biased lying (Created page with "{{Main|Trust}} In the last iteration on this subject we modified the probability adjustment for trust to include lying and bias. We noted that the lying was random in nature, that is, the lie would be distributed evenly among all options that were not the truth. Here we modify this assumption by allowing, in addition, lying that is biased toward a particular o...")
- 15:16, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Modification to the Sapienza probability adjustment for trust to include lying and bias (Created page with "<h2>Review of Sapienza's Probability Adjustment Equation</h2> Sapienza’s paper (https://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1664/w9.pdf), which is the basis for our modeling approach, uses the notion of trust between nodes to adjust the node’s probability of getting a particular answer. Each node is first assigned probabilities for a particular outcome (eg 60% Red, 30% Blue, 10% Green). Then, based on trust, the nodes’ probabilities are adjusted (or smoothed, as Sapienza puts it) up...")
- 14:53, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Trust attenuation and the inadequacy of single-value trust factors (Created page with "During last week’s meeting (6/7/23) we discussed, among other things, trust attenuation: Attenuation in Trust Networks. Let’s start by following up on some points that were raised about this: ==== Why we're not using a tree topology ==== The examples show a single straight line representing the originating client (top-node) to the server (leaf node) that answers the query. The rest of the tree is simply not show...")
- 14:41, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Attenuation in trust networks (Created page with "<h2>Review of Cycling</h2> During last week’s call we discussed, among other things, the effect of cycling and how it can badly distort confidence results: Effect of Cycling in Trust Networks. To summarize briefly, if Trust=1.0 for all nodes, then cycling will rapidly lead to a confidence of 1 (100%) for a given question (if probabilities for most of the nodes are above 50%). However, if Trust < 1.0 then t...")
- 14:31, 1 September 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Effect of cycling in trust networks (Created page with "This discussion will show how cycling in trust networks rapidly leads to an incorrect answer (Pcomb) which is often much higher than the answer you would get in a non-cycling network. The divergence between answers, however, depends on trust. If trust is low the answers will tend to converge and will be equal when trust is zero. If trust is high the answers will be very far apart. Suppose we have a trust network composed of four Nodes 0, 1, 2, 3 with the following conne...")
- 21:34, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Trust/Probability/Population graphs algorithm (Created page with "== Trust/Probability/Population Graphs Algorithm U99== This algorithm is a variant of Eric’s trust-weighted histogram (TWH) algorithm and can be conceived of as follows. Start by plotting probability on the x-axis and trust on the y-axis for each source. Now draw lines to represent intervals in the x and y-axis (eg 0-0.2, 0.2-0.4, etc). Each rectangle (ie bin) in the resulting grid will contain some...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 21:26, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Allowing for more than predicate questions in the trust-weighted histogram (TWH) algorithm (Created page with "The <code>trust_weighted_histogram</code> (TWH) algorithm was discussed last time but only handles predicate questions. Indeed, it only handles single valued probabilities under the assumption that the other probability in a predicate distribution is (1-P). Although the examples that exercise it are actually provided as a two-valued distribution [P, 1-P], the algorithm ignores the 2nd value. This was corrected using the <code>trust_weighted_histogram_sets</code> algorit...")
- 21:14, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Privacy enhancing straight average algorithm (Created page with "The straight average algorithm discussed previously was modified to obscure trust information as it works up the tree, thus enhancing privacy. The previous algorithm communicated all trust-modified probabilities up to the head node, where the average would be calculated. This could potentially lead to reverse engineering the trust information associated with those probabilities. The new algorithm only communicates the sum of the probabilities at each node along with the...")
- 21:01, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Population distributions and graphical output with privacy (Created page with "Last time we discussed probability distributions (either binned or continuous) in which each distribution was the result of a single source’s answer. We learned how to combine such distributions via Bayesian or averaging techniques. But another way to present respondents’ information is to simply transfer it to the top-most node and display it in a graphical or tabular form. The top node (the guy asking the...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 20:50, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Binned and continuous distributions (Created page with "{{Main|Aggregation techniques}} <h2>Introduction</h2> The simple predicate question we’ve been considering can be turned into one requiring a distribution, aka a probability density function. For example, if we ask whether it will be Sunny or Cloudy tomorrow the respondent can answer by saying: # Sunny or Cloudy. # % chance of each. This is, in a sense, the coarsest distribution possible and is the type of answer we have been considering so far. # An actual distribu...")
- 20:40, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Trust-weighted histograms (Created page with "<span id="dans-proposal-for-trust-weighted-histograms"></span> === Dan’s proposal for trust-weighted histograms === This is my (@efrias) interpretation of an algorithm Dan proposed after the July 24th meeting. It behaves differently from previous algorithms: * the output of this algorithm is a histogram that could be presented to the user as-is * previous algorithms used the trust factor to pull stronger opinions towards the center. In other words, previous algorithm...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 20:32, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Other possible algorithms for calculating binary predicates (Created page with "{{Main|Aggregation techniques}} This is a work in progress, for now just look at it as a collection of notes. This is the original graph from example 1, just modified to show opinions as true/false with confidence values to avoid confusion. <kroki lang="graphviz"> digraph G { fontname="Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" node [fontname="Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"] edge [fontname="Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"] layout=dot 0 [label="0, no opinion"] 1 [labe...")
- 20:14, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page A trust weighted averaging technique to supplement straight averaging and Bayes (Created page with "<h2>Brief Recap</h2> Last time we discussed a straightforward averaging technique for situations where Bayes was not appropriate. Probabilities were trust-modified (per [https://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1664/w9.pdf Sapienza ] or an augmented method) and passed up...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 20:08, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page A simple averaging technique to supplement the Bayes equation (Created page with "{{Main:Aggregation techniques}} <h2>Background</h2> As we saw previously, the Bayes equation can easily be misapplied to situations that are not based on rigorous probabilistic studies. The example given was along the lines of 100 people who are not sure whether it will be sunny or cloudy tomorrow because either they individually don’t know (P=50%) or their probabilities cancel out to become 50%....") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 20:01, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Aggregation techniques (Created page with "Aggregation refers to the way we combine the opinions of others to obtain a final value of the opinion. A poll which takes the sum of each person's candidate preference in an election and then calculates the percentage for each candidate is an aggregation technique. A number of aggregation techniques are possible. A few are listed here: 1) Bayes' equation with a simple example of its use. 2) Simple averaging. 3) Trust weighted averaging. 4) Techniques for binned an...") Tag: Visual edit
- 19:45, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Use Case for Predicate Rating System: Discussion Board Multidimensional Sort (Created page with "Probably the most prolific discussion forum in today’s world, or at least a very successful one, is Reddit. We examine Reddit and some of its shortcomings below, and attempt to use the predicate rating system to suggest a better solution. <span id="general-overview"></span> === General overview === Reddit is a discussion board which consists of several separate user-created, user-moderated boards called “subreddits.” Although site administration has the ultimate...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 14:59, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Post-scarcity defined (Created page with "<h3>Post-scarcity Defined U99</h3> I realize that I’m using the term post-scarcity wrong. Post-scarcity conventionally refers to a futuristic concept (featured alot in sci-fi) where technology, particularly robotics and AI, have succeeded in doing the work for us and we then simply live a life of ease and abundance. My definition is a bit more pedestrian. A post-scarcity society is one that can easily provide all necessities for all its members with a reasonable amoun...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 14:41, 30 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page A voluntary peer-to-peer gift giving economic system (Created page with "<h3>Thoughts on a voluntary gift giving economic system U99</h3> https://gitlab.syncad.com/peerverity/trust-model-playground/-/wikis/Thoughts-on-a-subjective-ratings-based-economy Lem’s idea of a gift-giving economy and mine, call it a central resource pool, can converge in the following way. We would have a central pool, an online Amazon-like system, but transactions would be peer-to-peer. Individuals would make claims and producers would fulfill those claims based...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 21:41, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page A moneyless economy based on reputation and need (Created page with "<h3>INTRODUCTION</h3> Last time we discussed a monetary system based on crypto that communities could use to pay people based on ratings and purchase goods in the economy. We also discussed a system of “gift giving” using ratings which would involve no money at all. Lem is further pursuing this idea. Here I’d like to propose a system that takes us one more step away from the crypto money system discussed last week toward a moneyless system. <h3>A MONEYLESS COMMUN...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 21:34, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Thoughts on an intentional community with a subjective ratings based economy (Created page with "== Why talk about an intentional community? == A subjective ratings-based economy (SRBE), as we have previously discussed, would not necessarily need to be forced into existence. It could (and we assume, it will) grow organically alongside the money-based economy and even co-exist with it indefinitely, that is, it does not necessarily need to completely displace money-based economies. One might ask, then, why should we try to model an intentional community with a SRBE?...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 18:24, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Thoughts on a subjective ratings based economy (Created page with "It can be difficult to imagine an economy without money. The idea of a “gift economy” sounds nice, but breaks down at any scale whatsoever due to people taking advantage of the system without providing anything in return (the “free-rider problem”). Money serves as a more-or-less objective measure (however flawed it may be) of contribution to an economy, and its exchange for goods and services serves as an imperfect but somewhat functional check against the free-r...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 16:08, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Optimal income distribution (Created page with "We have discussed the need for a more equal income distribution than the one western capitalism yields. But how would we define an optimal distribution? A starting point for deciding this could start with a condition of Pareto optimality. That is, we stipulate that a Pareto sub-optimal distribution is one in which everyone is worse off. The figure below shows several simplified distributions. We reject the two curves on the bottom because everyone is worse off if they ar...") Tag: Visual edit
- 15:49, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Money defined (Created page with "<h3>Money Defined U99</h3> This brings us to money and investment, a subject we’ve discussed before, but one that deserves a return to fundamentals. Let’s start by defining money as two things: 1) an IOU and 2) a claim on property. An IOU is simply a note that communicates a debt obligation. If Sally takes care of Brenda’s kids for 2 hours, Brenda could write Sally a note saying she did that and that she owes Sally two hours of her time. Sally now has a piece of...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 15:40, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Money system based on ratings (Created page with "<h3>Introduction</h3> Last time we discussed the idea of paying workers in our ratings system with crypto and perhaps, more generally, paying people based on their ratings. Dan and Lem had the notion of doing away with money altogether and imagined a “gift giving” arrangement based on ratings. Lem elaborated on this idea in subsequent conversations with me. This is a fascinating idea. But since I am myself having difficulty seeing how such a moneyless system would...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 14:54, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Influence of wealth in democracy (Created page with "But other ideas will have to come from the community itself. An important one will be how much influence money will buy in a new democracy. According to [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Free_and_Equal/Hl7QEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 Chandler], in our present society, almost all policy that gets enacted only does so because the wealthy are behind it. In other words, if a policy is backed by ordinary people but not the wealthy, it <i>is not</i> enacted. If it is backed by t...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 14:42, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs moved page Not be compensated to Compensation for participants
- 14:29, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Not be compensated (Created page with "<h3>Compensation for Participants U99</h3> Since users of the system will be doing alot of work, work that would be typically paid in the “real” world, a community might contemplate paying them for their services. A community will need to aggregate opinion for policy-making (beyond the algorithmic), hold votes on issues, enforce bylaws, report on news, etc. Plenty of administrative effort will likely be needed over time to handle these tasks, even though the communi...") Tag: Visual edit
- 14:24, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Hippy Communes, Socialism, Work, and Egalitarianism (Created page with "<h3>Hippy Communes, Socialism, Work, and Egalitarianism</h3> [https://www.twinoaks.org/ Twin Oaks in Virginia] is one of the oldest “intentional communities” in America, having been around since its inception in the 60’s. It’s a hippy commune, one of several scattered across the country. It consists of about 100 members who must work a total of 42 hours a week in return for a private room (in a shared house, one of several), shared food (dining hall), medical ca...")
- 14:18, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Personal choice and sacrificial contributions (Created page with "Let’s say I have two similar products in front of me on a store shelf. One is locally produced and the other made in China. The locally produced one costs 3 times as much. I pick the one made in China even though I’m told to buy the locally produced item. This is much like buy American campaigns or calls to boycott products for some ideological reason. In all these cases the individual is asked to make a sacrifice for the common good. However, no one else has made a...")
- 14:08, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Productivity (Created page with "Productivity is normally defined as output per worker per hour. It is the central measure of economic progress in any society and the basis for increased standard of living (at least in material terms). The following graph shows how US productivity has increased since 1947, the first year the Bureau of Labor Statistics started tracking it. image Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/productivity Also: ht...") Tag: Visual edit
- 13:52, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Economic predicates (Created page with "<h3>Thoughts on Economic Predicates</h3> Our ratings system is presumed to start with questions that can be answered through a numerical rating. “Is X a real person” might be answered with a 0.7, indicating their belief that there is a 70% probability that the person in question is real. We have constructed a Bayesian math framework to encapsulate this numerically. Let’s suppose we are trying to ascertain X’s need for a claimed item (in the SRBE/CRBE economy)....") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 13:50, 29 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Economic Systems (Created page with "Economic systems refer to methods by which resource allocation occurs as a result of the ratings system. Using the system, people will rate each other's claims to economic goods based on multiple factors such as their productivity, needs, overall rating, etc. Since the ratings system has both a subjective and community version, we distinguish two types of economic system, the SRBE (Subjective Ratings Based Economy) and CRBE (Community Ratings Based Economy). Another rela...") Tag: Visual edit
- 20:00, 28 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Internal:Brainstorming 26 -- Freedom of speech, sanitizing status, progress moving to Main namespace (Created page with "asdfad") Tag: Visual edit
- 15:53, 28 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Moderation and adherence to norms (Created page with " === The power of moderation === A large part of our driving force should be the idea that moderation is often the path to better discussion, decision making, and governance. We could even argue that democratic systems can only survive if the polity is moderate, both in temperament and policy. A democratic majority that favors genocide, and then implements it, is not a democracy. Moderation means that people’s views tend to cluster around the mean and that they are wi...") Tag: Visual edit
- 20:11, 27 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Philosophy of John Rawls (Created page with "<h2>The Philosophy of John Rawls</h2> It is not for lack of ideas that the US finds itself in its current predicament, a brilliant but declining superpower hobbled by entirely self-inflicted wounds. [https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rawls/ John Rawls], perhaps the most influential political philosopher of the 20th century, laid out some basic ideas, broadly known by the term “justice as fairness”. He describes a methodology by which we can objectively find how soc...") Tag: Visual edit: Switched
- 19:24, 27 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Technocracy (Created page with "The system we are discussing is basically a technocracy, or more specifically to our case, a democratic technocracy. In many ways, we are already living in a technocracy and have been for many decades. Government agencies, run by technocrats, have significant leverage over policy because broadly written laws often give them the granular authority to do so. The EPA, for instance is given a legal mandate to control the amount of pollution emissions in certain industries bu...") Tag: Visual edit
- 19:19, 27 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page "open source" decision making (Created page with "One of the advantages and use cases our system offers is replacing closed decision processes with ones that are open to all. An example of this is college admissions, one that has a direct impact on the public, especially young people. Many high school students aim for the most competitive schools for which the admission rate might be less than 10%. Needless to say, the applicant pool, aside from those who are admitted for non-academic reasons (eg corruption, legacy, ath...") Tag: Visual edit
- 19:11, 27 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Direct democracy (Created page with "Our system is uniquely positioned as an experiment in direct democracy. The debating, voting, and, by extension, policy making infrastructure is already there in the concept we have so far. It would seem that we could easily transform these elements into a government in which “the people” make and decide on policy details. The usual critique of direct democracy is that normal people don’t have the time or inclination to pass laws and make regulatory policy to enfo...") Tag: Visual edit
- 20:48, 26 August 2024 Pete talk contribs created page Technical overview of the ratings system (Created page with "Let's take a very simple situation. You want to know whether it is going to rain tomorrow. You don't know so you ask two knowledgeable sources this question. One of them believes it will rain with a probability of 60%. The other believes it will rain with a probability of 80%. We can sketch this situation as follows: You combine these probabilities using some aggregation technique. One such technique is Bayes' equation: Pcomb = 0.6*0.8/(0.6*0.8 + 0.4*0.2) = 0.857 An...") Tag: Visual edit
